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[Perseid]

OK. Here's how it normally works. Bob at Record Company X sees a torrent for Crappy Album Y which his company owns. He downloads it like any other schmo and connects. Because all BT users upload and download at the same time, Bob merely has to wait for connections to come in to him so he can write down the IP address. He then takes this IP address and figures out what ISP it belongs to, which is quite easy to do. At this point this is ALL Bob has. He doesn't know who you are or even specifcs on where you are. He only has your IP. So he then calls up Cable Company Z because he knows your IP belongs to them and tells them you've been a bad boy and to do something about it or he will sue the ISP. The ISP DOES know who you are and can connect the logs of your IP address to the time you dowloaded. So your ISP now knows who you are and that you've been naughty. Bob still does NOT know this, and the ISP won't tell him. And let's face it, except for maybe Time Warner, no ISPs truly care what you do with your bandwidth as long as you pay your bill. So they are only going to do as much as they are legally obligated to do, which is send you a nasty threatening letter. I've known a couple people who have gotten 3 or 4 letters and never got disconnected, though that doesn't mean you won't.

The IP owner can sue you based on your IP address at which point they can subpoena you computer and the ISP's data, but none of this will come as a surprise in the middle of the night. You'll know you're being sued before the shit hits the fan. And unless they sue you they can never know exactly who you are. The letter comes from your ISP and NOT from the IP owner.

So...relax.

[monk456l]

if your isp is comcast you can pretty much relax, believe me lol i got 11 letters once for dling something on bt, im also guessing they were level 2 letters since they included the file that you dled, head on over to phoenixlabs.org if you really want to make sure, they have alot of info on all this kind of stuff.

[WarMachine]

11 letters? jesus.

i talked to some more poeple about it that i know personally who work with computers, they said during the big napster crazy in hightschool tons of their freinds got those letters like 4 times and nothing happened. im really not trying to play with fire though. wats this whole level 2 thing?

i called up comcast an they said usually this is as far as it goes, its just a warning that any further activity could lead to action. the guy was real cool about explaining everything to me, cuz i guess he realized i didnt really do anything. he was explaining how they rarely procecute in my case, and if they did theyd have to sue me, then id have to turn in my computer ,etc. thats pretty much fine with me though, not the suing or anything, but, if i turn my computer in, they wont find anything that i dont have on cd or disc, or watever, except like i mentioned, a few records and tapes i threw out, which, wasnt even the reason i got the letter. i also figured out sumone has been using my connection to download shit (i have wireless router). i noticed shit was slowing down for a time before i got the letter, an he was telling me even with 128 bit encryption, a hacker could get into ur system within like 30 seconds. i didnt even have that shit on, all i did was have a pass and login, cuz if i put any kind of security on, my card would keep disconnecting from the router. that, and if sumone steals my net to use filesharing programs, they are using my ip...so anything they downloaded also shows up like im doing it. sucks. guess im going wired, and staying away from all that shit

[michaelarth]

what is an isp??

[popinadam]

Definitions of ISP on the Web: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=com.microsoft:*&defl=en&q=define:ISP&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

Internet Service Provider. A company that provides an Internet connection.
www.astutechnologies.com/glossary.htm

ISP stands for Internet Service Provider. An ISP provides access to the Internet for others via some connectivity service(s). Examples of ISPs include Earthlink, Mindspring, and WorldNet to name a few.
www.1stdomain.net/info/glossary.html

An ISP is a company that provides access to the Internet to individuals or companies. ISPs provide local dial-up access from your personal computer to their computer network and their network connects you to the Internet.
www.liv.ac.uk/webteam/glossary/

Internet Service Provider. A company that provides Internet access.
adultchamber.com/members/glossary.htm

Try to use your own resources, they're there.

[pm5k00]

both comcast and adelphia are owned by time warner, its all one big company. i dont think you have anything to worry about unless you start selling things, the record/movie/game/software companies would spend way more money on lawyers and court costs then they would ever recouperate from sueing you personally. also try joining smaller member only bit torrent sites if you're still wigged out.  

[Altor]

I've had three of these sent to me over the last couple of years.  This is despite me downloading positively colossal numbers of import movies, anime, games, roms, software you can't buy anymore, etc.  I download games to see if they're any good before making a buying decision (informed consumers - yeah, that should be illegal) and still, just three over the last 2 or 3 years.

I have never used a firewall of any kind, although I do have a router (my main computer is DMZ'd though), and never used IP filtering stuff.  I think the secret is to quickly remove things from your download/sharing directory immediately after you've got it when it's a "hot item", like a brand-new released game.  Figure, you can download a 700mb dvd rip in about 2 hours if you have a good number of connections, then you immediately remove it from your shared list, the liklihood of your getting caught is dramatically lower than somebody who downloads and leaves it running overnight or over the weekend.  Seed if you can, don't get me wrong, but only if you've got security measures in place.

Oh.  Interesting thing I heard about on respectp2p... if you have a wireless modem you're virtually immune to prosecution from **AA things, since all they can prove is that it came through your router, not that it wasn't downloaded by some guy sitting outside your house.

[ImmortalNinja]

Hmmm
I don’t think their decision to make downloading games and stuff illegal is to penalize "informed consumers", who are downloading to try before buying. They are trying to stop piracy where people are using their product without paying. (and of course those that are then mass producing the material and selling it on).

However it is very hard to differentiate between these two groups of people. How would you go about doing that?

Most stuff that is downloaded aren’t for trial purposes (and I’m not entirely sure how you trial a movie or CD) so I do not begrudge companies pursuing people. (I wont be happy but I can understand why they do it).

You can argue that its all over priced and a complete rip-off, that no-ones getting hurt by it, and that a single download wont make much of a difference but that’s a different argument altogether.

Two wrongs don’t make a right as they say

Would people be happier and do you think it would make a difference if companies specifically released content reduced versions of their games for people to download and try?

KK

[Altor]

Hmmm
I don’t think their decision to make downloading games and stuff illegal is to penalize "informed consumers", who are downloading to try before buying. They are trying to stop piracy where people are using their product without paying.

Well the problem is, I've only bought maybe 3 PC games in the last year.  I've probably downloaded 30 or more though.  They see this as lost profit, which in fact it is, since normally I'd have to buy those other 27 games to find out they're not worth owning.

If I only buy games that I enjoy, it means that developers and publishers have to actually work to make games worth buying.  Back in the old days of DOS shareware stuff, this was just what you had to do.  But now companies see shareware as being obsolete since they can get much more customers through flashy ads, and consumers see that demos are deceptive and rarely represent the finished product in any accurate way.  My favourite example is the spectacular original Deus Ex game for PC.  This game's demo didn't show ANYTHING compared to how brilliant the finished game was.  And other demos purposefully only show the best parts of the game, leaving out the tedium and bug-ridden stuff.

What the game/music industry calls "piracy" I call giving customers an informed opinion.  Why buy a CD when you can download it and find out it's crap?  Why buy a game when 9/10 aren't the kind I'll want to play, even if they have a lot of good reviews?  Why buy software that's full of bugs or doesn't even do the things I want it to?  I mean, honestly, if I had a dime for each thing I've downloaded, used/run/played once, and then uninstalled/deleted/threw away immediately after, I would be rich.

The average consumer isn't well-informed.  Heck, most people I talk to don't even know that there are web sites that review games!  They've got to go by what the ad tells them, which usually gets them burned, and reduces sales in the long run.

Piracy isn't what's reducing sales, bad products are what's doing it.  If I didn't have to be afraid of false advertising and half-assed games/software/music, of course I would buy everything right away.

Or in another case, suppose I'm like the teenagers who are downloading gigabytes of music every year.  These kids can't even legally get proper jobs before they're 16 (in Canada at least), and until they've graduated high school nobody will give them a chance anyway.  Their disposable income is $100 at the very most every month!  Do these RIAA guys think they're going to grow a money tree out their @ss or something?  They don't have cash to buy 10 new CDs every month, so if they buy 4 CDs and pirate 6 others, according to the RIAA they are losing 6 sales a month from that kid alone due to piracy!  What a joke.  They would never be able to afford to buy the music, regardless of whether it was available to download or not.

There's no logical counter-argument, and I think the RIAA-type companies know it.  They just using scare tactics, suing people at random.

[WarMachine]

"Most stuff that is downloaded aren’t for trial purposes (and I’m not entirely sure how you trial a movie or CD) so I do not begrudge companies pursuing people. (I wont be happy but I can understand why they do it). "

everything has its purpose..games, movies, and music. all media is the same, u have to see it, hear it, or play it to test it out...but once u do that, u can also save a copy, so it leaves them open. they dont wanna risk losing stuff, and they dont care if u dont really get to know wat ur buying. its hurting the customer, so they take it upon themselves to beat the system. i cant say i agree, but i see where it makes sence, why would u buy somthing wihtout trying it. im not buying a cd based off the radio single when 90 percent of music today is ASS and is nothing but one good single and THATS IT. even my favorite artists, i have to hear the whole thing before i judge if its worth 15-19 bucks. movies is the same thing. 15-19 bux...do i really want to be able to watch this movie over and over, forever... is it that classic? or should i jus see it in the movies once?

i gamble with some movies... pay 9 bux for me, 9 for my girl, a billion on candy an shit, an see in the theatre, just to get a night out, but thats on shit i know i wanna see... those i usually buy on dvd too... it ends up making them even more money than i would originally pay, but i dont care, cuz the movies good. sumone needs to invent a new system. you should be able to watch/play/hear the cd/game/dvd once... if after that u want it, u have to pay, if not, then thats it. im sure poeple could argue they need more than one listen or play to judge...but if im really on the fence with something that much, i either will or wont... if i hear stuff about it, maybe, its not that huge of a deal... i think that kinda system should at least be in effect though, at least. i mean look around.. all the downloading, etc, the whole nation..the world is asking for it.. but no one wants to do it, becuz theyd actually have to put out quality shit then.. advertising and marketing is deceptive, i almost went an saw catwoman before i read the reviews. halle berry crawling around in nice outfits...comic book stories...how can u go wrong, right? that movie got like a 3 outta 10 on most movie sites. pure example right there.

[ImmortalNinja]

First let me say that I don’t particularly like the "big companies" and their practices of maximizing profit margins. Its usually unfair on developers and consumers but sadly that is part of the capitalist model. (or at least to my limited knowledge of it ).

I’m not completely sure about the mechanics of ShareWare software but is that where you have a piece of software and only if you like it /use it do you pay a fee?
While it’s a nice idea I don’t think it works.
While I applaud those that do honor the honor system, in the end I don’t think enough do to generate enough cash to produce high quality products. Bearing in mind the length of time and money it takes to make a full production game/film/cd.
I find that humans are greedy and picky in nature, its probably part of the selfish gene thingy. In a lot of cases people can find lots of justification for not paying the fee. “I only use once in a blue moon”, “It doesn’t do exactly what I do”. Even a significant number of people thinking “Yeah that was good but not £30 good” would probably be enough to turn a loss on a title.

“What the game/music industry calls "piracy" I call giving customers an informed opinion”
Sorry I still think a majority of downloads is piracy. I am willing to bet there are more people that download stuff watch/play/listen to a significant part of the download and never pay for it than those that only download and truly use it for evaluation purposes.
And where do you draw the line between harmless evaluation and theft. And how do you differentiate the two when all you see is someone downloading a file?

I agree that piracy isn’t effecting sales to the extent that the companies would like us to think. But piracy is and always has been a factor in lost sales (espcially in the far east).

At the end of the day downloading and using copyrighted material is legally wrong so its within the rights of the copyright owners to pursue this. I don’t like it (mainly because it means I have to work harder to buy things    ) but seeing (as Hobbes points out ) it seem if you are born its too late to opt out of societies’ rules its something that you have to accept that the big companies are in the right  

Even if they do come up with bullcrap, as Altor pointed out, regarding loss sales from music peopl would never have bought in the first place.
However even though the figures are wrong I don’t think it justifies the kid pirating the 6 cds as right.
And this opens up the moral argument. Sure the kid wouldn’t have bought the 6 cds in any case, so no-one made a loss and so where’s the harm?
Well I think it can harm the kid. It potentially teaches them to live beyond their means. That they can have all they want when they even if they cant afford it and promotes materialism while devaluing money.
In a worse case scenario, in future months the kid is buying shoes and so “cant” afford cds and then thinks its ok to download all 10 cd’s. As opposed to learning about making a sacrifice/comprimise and saving up.

I don’t want to condemn internet downloading as evil and that everyone should be dragged away in chains and sued. I don’t think this at all and indeed I have lots of beef with the way the “big companies” work but as I said that’s another argument altogether. But I have become more aware in recent years that when I hit that download button I am certainly not “right” in what I am doing. :?

KK

[gatchan]

only one thing is clear for me. they're violating your privacy rights, because they're watching what you downloaded.

Yes, maybe you're downloading material wich you dont own, but spying you is a bigger fault.

[sinkhead]

There will probably be a clause in the contract that not many people ever read that reads something like
"You understand that your internet use may be monitored to collect statistics and any other information we deem reasonable"

[phoood]

Let me make this clear, people can't hack encrypted information in 30 seconds.

[gatchan]

There will probably be a clause in the contract that not many people ever read that reads something like
"You understand that your internet use may be monitored to collect statistics and any other information we deem reasonable"

Yes, you may monitor people to collect statistics (how much p2p traffic will you generate, how many http connections you have openend at the end of the day...), never to retrieve private information, just like what are you downloading. its really abusive what they've done.