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[Slippy]

This is a log of the chatroom today, I thought it was a very informative conversation, so I figured to make it permanant I'd post it here.
Just a warning... wall of text x10

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* Now talking in #scdev.org
* Topic is 'http://www.scdev.org | Firmware 1.52 out | mirror: http://l33t.spod.org/ratx/DS/SC/'
* Set by ratx!~ratx@l33t.spod.org on Fri Oct 14 06:29:45
<Slippy> Hello world!
<socket`> hey Slippy
<Slippy> This supercard thing looks pretty cool... I've been digging in the forums seeing what's up about it.
<Slippy> I'm pretty sure I'm going to get an SD version by the end of the week.
<ratx> cool... you got a passme thing?
<Slippy> No, I'm going to order a superpass with a supercard.  It's cheaper than getting a card for Wifime, I've got a ton of them but none of them are compatible.
<ratx> good plan
<Slippy> I've got a question though... I saw that someone found a faster RAM chip to eliminate slowdowns, has anyone tested it yet?
<creepypla> is slippy from starfox a boy or a girl
<ratx> I don't think upgrading the onboard ram is really within the realms of plausability
<Slippy> he's supposed to be a dude...
<aboeglin> Slippy: what do you mean ? the SDram is soldered to the SuperCard
<Slippy> Soldering comes off...
<aboeglin> although mine is 70ns instead of 90ns like some older versions, i don't think it is such a difference
<Slippy> I've done it on a videocard before, it's not THAT hard.  you just need a steady hand.
<ratx> are you just gonna use it for DS stuff?
<creepypla> doesn't the supercard have a controller of sorts since gba games aren't made to access sdram
<aboeglin> http://boeglin.org/static/supercard/supercard_cf.jpg whereas http://forum.gbadev.org/viewtopic.php?t=5051&start=0 claims it's 90ns
<Slippy> mostly, I like experimenting w/ homebrew (and other ...stuff)  But having 1/2 my GBA collection at all times w/o probs would be cool.
<aboeglin> creepypla: it uses a CPLD
<creepypla> it's 800ns
<creepypla> 110 ns is all you need
<aboeglin> between the SDram and the GBA slot
<Slippy> That image is helpfull.. it looks like that hynix chip could pop off w/o much of a problem.  Firmware might need to be updated... but I need to experiment with it to find out.
<creepypla> I have been turned away from buying a supercard because of the ram, but if you are actually planning on trying this I might have to buy one
<aboeglin> Slippy: Isn't is useless to put faster SDram if you don't update the other parts or modify the CPLD logic a bit ?
<creepypla> where are you going to find faster compatible sdram
<Slippy> I think someone on the forums found it already.
<aboeglin> also, are you _sure_ that slowdown is caused by the RAM ?
<Slippy> aboglin: No, but if it is then if the speed is just limited by what the card can do theoretically it could work.
<creepypla> pretty sure
<aboeglin> creepypla: what about the extra routine added by the SC patching tool I guess people complaining from slowdown are using ?
<aboeglin> the one that allows exiting the games and real time save
<creepypla> nope, because clean roms don't work
<Slippy> I need to get a card before I can tell for sure.  Slowdown wouldn't bother me, but if I can do it than it could out everyone else.
<creepypla> the supercard is patched because of the slow ram
<aboeglin> "clean roms don't work" ? I never had any issue with unpatched homebrews
<Slippy> you know what he means....  perfectly legal backups.
<aboeglin> creepypla: the supercard is patched to allow the games to write their saves to the CF or SD, actually
<creepypla> that's one patch
<creepypla> there's a couple of patches
<creepypla> the fact that homebrew doesn't need to be patched goes along with what I'm saying
<creepypla> http://www.scdev.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=716
<Slippy> What do you mean?  Roms don't work because they're programmed to use internal, homebrew can be written to go to SD or CF directly
<creepypla> brakken is a fanboy btw
<ratx> haha I was about to post that
<creepypla> supercard can only handle 4/2 waitstates
<creepypla> gba roms usually have 3/1 waitstates
<creepypla> homebrew doesn't
<creepypla> that'
<creepypla> that's why homebrew works without patching
<Slippy> so, this pretty much supports that faster memory would help with GBA games (if i'm reading it right).
<creepypla> yup
<creepypla> aslong as you don't use the "patch"
<creepypla> cleanroms should work
<Slippy> but isn't the patching req by clean roms?  I thought this was the case.
<creepypla> you could still probably patch games to use the save menu without the patch
<Slippy> or is that just for proper saving w/o rebooting?
<creepypla> but the main patch is just for replacing the waitstate controller I think
<creepypla> here we go
<creepypla> http://www.scdev.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4505#4505
<Slippy> So it is confirmed that faster RAM would help....
<creepypla> yes and no
<creepypla> 2 posts down it also says that you would need to reprogram the controller
<creepypla> which is the hard part
<Slippy> But you wouldn't nessassarily need to reprogram the controller...  It COULD work w/o, especially if the controller can be controlled by the firmware.
<creepypla> yup
<creepypla> is the controller controlled by the firmware
<Slippy> i don't know, but there's a possiblity.
<Slippy> Works that way with alot of sdram devices.
<aboeglin> well, let's say ram is the problem for gba. Then, why do ds games patched only with the patcher from kain work on the supercard ?
<aboeglin> without some supercard specific patch ?
<creepypla> because the ds doesn't use ds.gba files
<creepypla> and that's what supercard uses
<creepypla> eventhough the rename it to .nds
<aboeglin> I don't get it, sorry ...
<Slippy> that's fuzzy for me too
<aboeglin> a .nds.gba is just a .nds with some added loader, isn't it ?
<Slippy> Aha!  Found the thread!
<Slippy> http://www.scdev.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=261&highlight=faster+sdram
<creepypla> ya it is
<creepypla> but you need that loaded
<creepypla> for the supercard
<creepypla> plus the ds games are also patched for being read off of the sdram or cf and saving to the sdram or cf
<creepypla> but torne said that the only thing different in a gba rom before and after the patch is just the gba waitstate controls being changed
<Slippy> but the waitstates are the bottleneck of the sdram, so it would in theory bump up the speeds with a faster chip.
<creepypla> thats true
<creepypla> but the controller could possibly be incompatible with faster ram
<creepypla> and that would be the only problem that I can think of
<Slippy> That's the major roadblock... I mean, replacing an sdram chip w/ my coldheat would be a piece of cake, but I know next to nothing on making it compatible.
<Slippy> unless someone could reverse engineer the firmware and find out.  Or speak chinese to ask romman.
<creepypla> yup
<Slippy> This has actually been very informative... someone should post this on the forums.  I've gotta register first though...
<creepypla> I found out everything through the forums
<Slippy> Me too, but this is a sort of compendium of info.

[Reaperman93010]

just a word of caution on the coldheat--it passes small amounts of current through the tip, making it a poor choice for sensitive electronics.

[DeVS]

just a word of caution on the coldheat--it passes small amounts of current through the tip, making it a poor choice for sensitive electronics.

Couldnt agree more. Coldheat is good for stuff like jewlery and such, but like Reaperman said, it passes electricity threw the tip in order to heat the solder. Most people who solder electronics will tell ya not to use Cold Heat for electronic stuff like this.

[Slippy]

I know that coldheat uses electricity... but sometimes with my regular irons the pins around it melt before I can get them in position.  Alot of the time it's worth the risk just to make it easier...  I guess I've just gotten lucky so far

[MottZilla]

The Lattice chip sounds to me like more of a bottleneck than the RAM chip. Infact the RAM chip with a fast enough Lattice conversion chip may not need to be changed at all. No matter what can in theory be done to fix it is pointless. It's not practical for most end users. Any hardware changes would be best to be done by Romman and whoever else is with him to introduce into a SuperCard 2 or something like that. Honestly if the GBA slowdowns bother you, I think you're better off buying the M3 Adapter than trying to hack apart a SuperCard to get it to work. I can't say I'm that bothered because I have a real GBA flash cartridge if I wanna play GBA games. I just use the SC for a few that aren't affected by the slowdown and DS games.

[NT]

The Lattice chip sounds to me like more of a bottleneck than the RAM chip. Infact the RAM chip with a fast enough Lattice conversion chip may not need to be changed at all. No matter what can in theory be done to fix it is pointless. It's not practical for most end users. Any hardware changes would be best to be done by Romman and whoever else is with him to introduce into a SuperCard 2 or something like that. Honestly if the GBA slowdowns bother you, I think you're better off buying the M3 Adapter than trying to hack apart a SuperCard to get it to work. I can't say I'm that bothered because I have a real GBA flash cartridge if I wanna play GBA games. I just use the SC for a few that aren't affected by the slowdown and DS games.

I wouldn't say it's pointless.  There's at least a few people on this board who are capable of this kind of soldering.