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[Enixcell]

Everyone knows that the ds is going to have a web browser right? Well, my question is can the DS get a virus?

[Vapourstreak]

Its the same security setting as the Opera Web Browser for the PC, we are told

[VoX]

Ds Virus from the web browser thats a pretty good idea... I mean that arr no you cant get virus's

[kkan]

no because the current browsers that are out OPERA browser and the one in DS ORGANISE do not allow download  

for a virus to be effective you need to at least be able to allow download  

[HurricaneGame]

And to open the extension!! And you can't open anything with the browser .

[Hi]

You never know for sure though. I mean, viris writers may have a way.

What if I viris was snuck into javascript? Or animated Jpeg's? Or just pictures? Or even just normal html? Viris writers are pretty smart, and besides, where there's a will there's a way.

I'm just saying, it may be possible. However, I agree that it is extreemly unlikely.

[mudlouse1]

You never know for sure though. I mean, viris writers may have a way.

What if I viris was snuck into javascript? Or animated Jpeg's? Or just pictures? Or even just normal html? Viris writers are pretty smart, and besides, where there's a will there's a way.

I'm just saying, it may be possible. However, I agree that it is extreemly unlikely.

i think it's near impossible.

what is definetly possible are redirects and porn images and things, but that's far from a virus

[kkan]

what is definetly possible are redirects and porn images and things, but that's far from a virus

Wouldnt that be an added/requested feature  :p

[Hi]

where there's a will there's a way.

Virus writers are amazingly smart sometimes. Don't underestimate them.

I had thought an nds virus would be impossible... but then I read about the ds bricker. I went into shock.

This would be harder than the ds bricker, as it would have to self-download itself or something, but still...

I don't disagree that it would be NEAR impossible though. Yet... what is the definition of near in the dictionary? I don't think it's a synonym for completely, totally, full or anything like that...

...but near should be good enouph, even if it's not a synonim for completely, tota... yeah, what I said before. I wouldn't worry, I just think that it IS possible, and IS a possibility. But don't worry.

[Altor]

For people with little technical knowledge, a virus operates on either:
a) An unwise user opening an executable file which is recognized by the OS as a legitimate file
b) A security flaw which allows running unsigned code on the OS

As you can see, both have the prerequisite of an OS (operating system, like Windows, Mac-whatever, etc) on which "something" can be run.  The DS does not have a functional OS while it is running games.  Signs that it DID have a functional OS would be if closing the lid universally suspended whatever was going on, rather than it needing to be written into the code of that program, or if a certain key combination allowed you to go back to the main screen of the unit, like where you can enter pictochat.  However, for obvious reasons Nintendo would want the very maximum amount of computing power to be dedicated to the software the DS is running, allowing for the best possible performance.

So, there is no underlying OS, which means no software/kernel-based vulnerabilities can exist.

The only possible way that code which Nintendo itself has not written could be applied to the DS system would be if there was hardware intended to allow unsigned code (ie, a passme device) inserted.  However, this is also not physically possible since you need to have the Opera cartridge inserted in order to run Opera, obviously, and not a passme.

So there's no threat... except, oddly enough, to people who have run Flashme, since this would allow unsigned code to be run at any time.  This is one way the infamous "bricker" virus could be run.  But, it's unlikely that Nintendo/Opera programmers would allow any risk of direct-to-bios writing from a regular cartridge.

This paragraph is all theory, but it would make sense: by "regular" cartridge, I mean a cartridge that does not have the Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection bios update built into it.  Unless I'm mistaken and they still haven't released the code, until relatively recently only Nintendo-published (like, not konami or something, not as in a pirated game) games came with Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection capability.  Why?  Because they wanted to make sure that virtually anyone interested in playing a WFC game would have already run one of the games with the bios patch.  Nintendo will probably not allow a 3rd party company to include the patch in their game because they absolutely cannot afford to allow any leaks of that code since it would allow for potentially malicious use by people with an evil sense of humor.  Theoretically if someone had access to the uncompiled form of the WFC patch, they could write a virus which can be run through browser software that would authenticate itself as coming from Nintendo.  The reason why game pirates can put these games on a flashcard and just run the patch is because it's already in compiled (encrypted and basically unreadable by anything but a DS) form.

Still with me?  No?  Well better get off the bus now, because I'm about to go a little deeper.

It's logical that Nintendo would include a back door into such a useful thing as browser software, a back door that could ONLY be accessed by a Nintendo-authenticated code that the DS would recognize.  So they might, for instance, make a bios update that changes the appearance of the UI, competing with Sony a bit in terms of customization.  It is evident based on the fact that Flashme can be installed to the bios that there is free room remaining for more code to be inserted.  So assuming this likely possibility exists that there's a back door in the Opera software, if someone outside of Nintendo got a hold of that WFC patcher, they might be able to make a virus that could be downloaded via Opera and wrecking your DS, at least until someone could do a bios flash with a second DS or you send it to Nintendo for replacement assuming it's still under warranty.

However, Nintendo doesn't have a history of leaks.  In fact, they're freaking airtight most of the time... and I think we all hold that against them  And even in the event that the WFC code was readily available to every hacking group in the universe:
-They would probably not be bothered to go to the effort of spending days, weeks, months on something that is likely to be impossible
-Nintendo are clever folk and probably wouldn't use the same authentication sequence for the WFC code as they would for this hypothetical back door
-Nintendo would almost certainly release a counter-patch immediately which WOULD change the authentication sequence
-If I remember correctly, the Nintendo DS uses RSA security... honestly I'm grasping at straws here, but I know that RSA is 1024-bit encryption, and if it's used for this bios patch authentication procedure (that is, unless it's flashme-d), it would be virtually unbreakable.  I mean that - unbreakable.  256-bit encryption is considered basically unbreakable even by supercomputers or massive distributed computing like folding@home, seti@home, etc, and 1024-bit encryption is literally millions if not billions or more times secure than 256-bit encryption.  If the likelihood of a hacker breaking 256-bit encryption is the same as the likelihood of a donut appearing by random chance out of thin air directly in front of you, then the likelihood of breaking 1024-bit encryption is approximately the same as a donut appearing, carried by the most attractive woman you've ever seen, followed by every woman you've ever had a crush on, and it's your favorite kind of donut, and when you eat it, it thanks you and says it hopes you enjoy it.  And also it spontaneously regenerates and makes you able to turn into King Kong at will, as well as the ability to turn every light in your house on and off by just thinking about it.

LONG STORY SHORT!!!!!
-NO, A LEGITIMATE USER IS VIRTUALLY IMMUNE TO ANY KIND OF DS VIRUS
-IF YOU RUN FLASHME, YOU ARE STILL VIRTUALLY IMMUNE, BUT THERE IS "SOME" POSSIBLE RISK... POSSIBLY, BUT VERY HIGHLY UNLIKELY (99.9% CERTAINTY)
-IF NINTENDO HAD A LEAK OF THE WFC PATCH CODE, WE'D ALL BE AT "SLIGHTLY MORE" RISK (99.5% CERTAINTY)

[Hi]

Altor, interesting post. Very techy yet understandable by not technowizzes like me. I very much enjoyed reading it.
_____________________________________________________________
bad news. I think that WFC PATCH CODE you speak of may have been leaked somewhat. Is the WFC patch code in the official nds SDK pack? If it is, it's been leaked.

On a certain bittorrent website, I exchanged PM's with someone who has the official SDK pack. He doesn't want to upload the pack, and says he got it from a friend. But the point is that this guy isn't working for nintendo, and he has his hands on the SDK pack.

He also doesn't want to upload the SDK, as I said. BUT he has it, which could lead to a bigger leak.

If that code is in the SDK pack, than it's out there, somewhere...

[mudlouse1]

thinking about it, if the game/app acts as the os then you can still use a buffer overflow attack. it'll just depend on whether the architecture will prevent this, and what the consequences are.

[Hi]

And then... what about a trojon?

[mudlouse1]

but there's no potential gain, remote access doesn't pose anything malicious and the only personal information held on the ds would be your name, month and day of birth and wifi settings.

[m2pt5]

This paragraph is all theory, but it would make sense: by "regular" cartridge, I mean a cartridge that does not have the Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection bios update built into it.

BIOS-update? What?

The only thing that WFC games write to the DS firmware is your Wi-Fi connection info; this is why Flashme had to be rearranged when Mario Kart came out, as it was writing to part of the firmware that was previously reserved for those settings, unbeknownst to the homebrew community, who also used it for Flashme.

Long story short: If you've played (or download-played) any WFC game, you have a section of your firmware set up for storing connection settings. If you have any version of Flashme that is 5 or higher, those settings will safely coexist with Flashme.