Search

[Nphinity]

Look first off, I already told you DSOrganize was an exceptionally useful piece of software.  I'm sure plenty of people have ltos of contact info, dates, etc, stored on their DS and use DSOrganize for access.  So these people would likely be depending on the software to access the information.  I don't mean depending on it to breathe or anything.  Don't exaggerate my words, in order to distort your way out of an argument.

Secodly, yea, he releasead the code, but I'm sure he'de take it back if he could, his comments give that impression.  He said he doesn't want anyone continuing it.  It's really easy to change all of the contact details for software so as the former developer doesn't get blamed.  You just have to take full responsibility for yourself.  I once picked up a VB project that had gone stale, but was still open(it was a M:TG program), I changed all the about boxes, and docs, so that I was listed as the primary contact, stating that I made the most recent changes, and that people should likely contact me for help, though I made it clear that the origional code was not mine, and gave lots of credit where due, and no one ended up blaming the origional developer for my changes.  In the end he picked it back up after life had been stirred some back into the project.

"And thirdly, the Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules"
-Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl

Any dev is free to do whatever they like, sure, but they SHOULD do the right thing, that's all I'm saying.

[Lick]

Whether you plan it or not,(aka signed up for it or not) when you release a piece of software that the public comes to depend on, the responsibility falls apon your shoulders.

To the people who depend on the software for contact details and plannings, DSO not being updated isn't a problem at all. The current state is usable. So responsibility is there. Responsibility is not: updating when requested, that would be him-being-nice, not him-being-responsible.

Also, he released the code just for educational purposes, so there's nothing wrong with him saying that he doesn't want any forks. He was clear about this the whole time, some people just misunderstood his motives.

"And thirdly, the Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules"
-Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl

Any dev is free to do whatever they like, sure, but they SHOULD do the right thing, that's all I'm saying.

Yes, but don't include "Updating software" or "OpenSourcing software when quiting" within your "guidelines". The developer has the personal right to quit a project, and he has the personal right to keep the code to himself.

[Nphinity]

If you don't agree with my personal guidlines to how to be a good programmer in a community like this one, then thats fine.  But these are my guidlines, and I think everyone would be happier if more devs stuck to it.

[PharaohsVizier]

What about the devs themselves?

[pte]

If you don't agree with my personal guidlines to how to be a good programmer in a community like this one, then thats fine.  But these are my guidlines, and I think everyone would be happier if more devs stuck to it.

People rarely code for the 'community'. They code for themselves and/or want to learn more and when they have something good at their hands they sometimes like to release it to the public for free or for a certain price.

You seem to have no idea how long it takes to write a program from point blank. Like when Archeide released his SNEmulDS v. 0.2 he stated that when he was writing the SNEmul emulator originally for DOS it took a year to get to the point where the DS version currently is at. You can only imagine how much work and effort he has put to his project by opening the source package and checking it out.

Then if someone emailed him with some bullshit message that you owe me a new upgrade cos I bought a SC due to your alpha version would you be happy and smiling? That is usually what kind of credit the programmers get. Either a bug report or msg stating "You wrote such a crappy program cuz I can't do everything I like with it, you suck". Don't get me wrong, all respect to Visual Basic and all but writing for DS is a bit more time consuming and harder.

[Nphinity]

That is usually what kind of credit the programmers get. Either a bug report or msg stating "You wrote such a crappy program cuz I can't do everything I like with it, you suck". Don't get me wrong, all respect to Visual Basic and all but writing for DS is a bit more time consuming and harder.

I sited a VB project as an example, that's not the oly language I write in.  I've done many projects, and you know how many people were like, "you owe me", none.  Users have been for the most part, nice when making requests.

The amount of time it takes to write something from start to finish is completly dependant on everything, the coder, the language, the project, the available knowlege base, the platform etc.  Once programmer might get a job done in a year, that another one gets done in a month, one of the biggest factors is how much time a coder is capable of and willing to put into the project.

In most communities I've been in, it's been all about coding for the community.  People work together, till you get a few annoying stingy glory hogs, who tend to stink up the scene, in which case the best to do, is to make them go to their own pin.

You ask your users, what is wrong with the sofware, what can be improved.  They tell you, and then you know where to go.  You make new features, you fix bugs, and you get thank yous, and more people using your stuff, and it makes you feel good.

And when you need to move on to better places, you release your source, and do what you can to let anyone else pick up the project, and the coding continues past your time, and the project eventually blossoms into something grander, without you even being around.  And all you had to do was say, well, I wont be touching this project anymore, so whats the point of letting the code rot on my box?

Again, it's my opinion on how to be a good programmer.  If you think it is better to code only for yourself, and keep your project closed, and treat anything you do for the project, like it's some big favor you did for your users, and they should be sooo greatful for it, then thats your perogitive, but I hope not too many people take that path.

[socket]

Well, your opinion is just a little bit selfish.  The coder can do whatever he or she wants.  There's no "code of conduct" at all, and shouldnt be.  I actually think the whole "scene" mentality is quite ridiculous at times and full of a lot of unnecessary BS.  If someone wants to quit, it's a shame.  If someone doesnt release the source, it's also a shame, but too bad.  Nobody is required to do anything.  Putting that kind of ridiculous pressure on a hobbyist coder is simply uncalled for, selfish, and rude.

[Nphinity]

Putting that kind of ridiculous pressure on a hobbyist coder is simply uncalled for, selfish, and rude.

I disagree.  I think keeping code to ones self, and writing for ones self is selfish.  I'm saying share, sharing you see, is by deffinition, unselfish.

[socket]

Why would you think it is yours to have?  Where do you get off thinking you have a right to anything that you have not written?  It would be generous for one to share, but it's not selfish to not share, its his or her personal decision to make.  Demanding that someone share is the thing that is selfish.

To me, selfishness is not the opposite of generosity...  which you seem to be confusing.  If someone is not generous it does not mean that they necessarily are a bad person.

You seem to think that YOU will get what YOU want and there should be some rule about it.  You seem to think that you're owed something, and I don't quite understand it.

[sparklesuk]

oh well here we go, been watching this thread for a bit and laughing. just like to make a point about so called "scenes" or communitys. way back in the day  when the internet was a mear glint in someones eye scenes for things like atari`s and such like were formed by people all meeting up and coding in rooms and bringing along what they had done themselves and sharing it out it was a social event and much beer did flow, it was pre red bull as well. ocasionally you might have to post a disk to someone at the other end of the country. i really think that we miss this and that coders work best in a group bouncing ideas off eah other. oh well those were the days.

[Wackedout1]

sparklesuk: Totally agree.

What people don't understand is that this is called "Homebrew" which means - It is done at home, on our own time.

I have been working on an app for the DS. But I do it when I get the time. (or work has pissed me off and I need to find something else.)

The fact DM left is sad. But I also know why he did it. I have been there with a few apps I made to help people. (Mainly my WinMaid program written when there was no way to find as certian spyware, and I posted it on Text-TV's forum, and bunch of noobies said "spyware" so I said to hell with them.)

So the point is, we (me and yes you) do this on our own time. There is no paycheck, there is no real braggin rights. It's to learn, and make something do whats it is not suppose to.

Please can we end this. It's all BS anyway.

[popinadam]

I don't homebrew, program or any of that sort of thing (for reference). But when I help friends, family memebers or other people with certain tasks that aren't my actual job that I get paid for, sometimes they offer me money and I accept, sometimes they offer money and I don't accept and sometimes they don't offer money at all and I don't think twice about it. All I know is I helped someone that I decided I wanted to and that's enough for me. It's up to them from then on to decide the next course of action. If someone decides to make a prog for everyone to use, then hey thanks alot! If they decide not to make a prog for everyone to use then oh well and if they decide to make a prog for everyone to use and quit working on it then oh well. If he decides to leave the source for others to go at it then cool and if he doesn't ..... that's right ... "oh well". I did not put any money into a product that someone said it would "do this, this and this. garunteed" so I have no right to complain about it in any way. If some people read this and think "he's right" then cool! If some people do not agree with what i'm saying then ... oh well and if some people think that everyone in this world is supposed to do certain things at all, then oh well to you.

[bitblt]

When a programmer writes code, homebrew or not, the source code belongs to the programmer unless it is paid for or sold.  Developing software is the same as writing a novel or painting a mural. The body of work belongs to it's creator. DragonMinded has complete ownership of his source code and can dictate how it is used.  When DM posted his DSO source, he did so without offering a GPL or PD agreement.  DM even specified in his distribution that he does not want people to make modifications to his work.  Therefore the DSO source is only available for reference. Other programmers do not have the right to pick up and continue the project, nor can they copy parts of the code without the consent of DM.  It's disappointing, but DM has the right to shut down the DSO project.

[Devil_Spawn]

it is a loss, but sooner or later some new developer or new app will appear and it will be as good or better, dont worry about it,
however i cannot believe that anything that could be said on irc could have such an impact on someone, unless he was allready thinking about quitting

[Nphinity]

You seem to think that YOU will get what YOU want and there should be some rule about it.  You seem to think that you're owed something, and I don't quite understand it.

Oi...  I'm just saying, if more coders would follow those guidelines we would have more Cool's and less, Oh Wells...

And not sharing, is by deffinition, selfish.  I don't get why you don't get that.


sparklesuk: yes, the days when collaboration meant meeting in person in pubs are to be totally missed, that was a really fun thing to do.

bitblt:  It is not about anyone rights, like those were never in question.

But coders in scenes like this need to understand that the software they release can have signifigant effect on the scene.  For instance, who else was working on organizer software for the DS?  pretty much no one, and you know why?  Cause Dragon had already made DSOrganize.  Now someone(or someones) else has to start from scratch to make the future organizer for the DS.  We prolly would have been better off if he hadn't made DSO in the first place.  It's likely someone else hopefully with a more open source mentality would have come along and written an alternative with a future.

Anyway it goes, you can hardly argue against the notion that a coder that gives out his source before leaving a scene is a better coder than one that leaves the scene and asks no one to use his code.