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[AnalogMan]

Movie & Music downloaded from internet (with or without DS) = NOT Legal.
Downloading DS games and not paying (roms) = NOT Legal
Using Homebrew (home made apps not from Nintendo, can't buy in stores) = Legal
Altering the DS to be able to use homebrew = Nintendo doesn't like it, and won't fix it if it breaks, but it's not illegal.

Q: Can I get caught for any of these?
A: Probably not, but there's always the chance. Like when you jay walk, there's always the chance you'll be busted, but it rarely happens. Don't call the MPAA and tell then you just downloaded the new Superman movie to your DS.

Q: Really?
A: Yes

Q: So it's all okay?
A: Refer to above.

Q: Why do so many people do it?
A: Because it's easier and cheaper then finding exactly what you want and ripping to the computer for converting and the chances of getting caught are extreamely low. And if you just keep the music and vids on your DS and not the computer, most authorities wouldn't think to look at a DS since it doesn't play music by its inherent nature. So just make sure to delete it after you've put it on the DS if you REALLY want to be extra extra cautious.

[Hanafuda]

homebrew apps are legal. For those that are designed to execute files, such as a legacy console emulator or Moonshell : what you do with a homebrew program program is up to you, and you bear the risk. It's like buying a gun .. legal (at least where I live), but it can be used to commit a crime if the owner makes that choice. The inanimate object cannot itself be guilty.

ShinaKitsune, you got an actual law that say its illegal to modify a console's firmware? In any case, that would only apply to flashme users.

As for "greyware," there's plenty of non-'greyware' products sold at retailers everywhere that meet your description of, "legal but only when used in a certain fashion that most of the time its not used in." Almost anyone's PC, MP3 players, CD and DVD burners, all the blank media sold, thumbdrives, VCR's, etc. etc. etc. The entire personal electronics market is driven by "grey."

[ShinaKitsune]

The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) cites that circumvention devices, including, but not limited to mod-chips, are illegal, because the device circumvents the copy-protection features of their host systems.
Also flashme has some proprietary nintendo software (firmware) thats being modified and distrobuted without nintendo's permission (though the argument can be brought up that alot of people mirror sony's psp firmware without thier permission, so take this as you will)... also there is a clause is most EULAs (but the nds is hardware and i can't find my booklet to see if there is a similar clause for modifing hardware) "You may not reverse engineer, disassemble or decompile the Software except to the extent that this restriction is expressly prohibited by applicable law."

As for greyware. I beg to differ, most of that is just media which can be used for piracy or legitmate purposes. Flash cartridges are sold under the banner of fair use because they can run legitimate homebrew and development things, but are wholly marketed and most often used to play commercial roms. Yes homebrew apps are fully legal, unless they contain proprietary nintendo code.

Basically all I am saying is the the law has a huge blanket effect via the DMCA that allows most companies that have electronic data thats under copyright sue just about anyone that is using their product in a way they don't like, and they cite that they are breeching the DMCA.
On the other hand the odds of being procecuted are very low since the percentage of people that are doing this is low.

[Hanafuda]

Well, it hasn't scared Datel off from the market. And unlike most of the Chinese manufacturers, Datel is established in the West and therefore sue-able. But like I said, its not like its stopped them.

[Vanit]

I fail to see how you can 'get caught'. Since the DS is running a cartridge and not a disc of sorts, there are NO background programs or features the DS can use (not even a program to tell you the game has been removed, try it and the DS will just lock up). Everysingle thing that you want to happen during the game must be in the game itself. Since Nintendo hasn't forced anyone to put 'anti-SC' programs in their games yet (to my knowledge), there is no getting caught. Nintendo has no way yet to single out a specific DS using homebrew. Simple.

[ShinaKitsune]

Well, it hasn't scared Datel off from the market. And unlike most of the Chinese manufacturers, Datel is established in the West and therefore sue-able. But like I said, its not like its stopped them.

Yes this is true, but also with the Datel device they don't mention running commercial games/roms on it once, however you are still able to.

I fail to see how you can 'get caught'. Since the DS is running a cartridge and not a disc of sorts, there are NO background programs or features the DS can use (not even a program to tell you the game has been removed, try it and the DS will just lock up). Everysingle thing that you want to happen during the game must be in the game itself. Since Nintendo hasn't forced anyone to put 'anti-SC' programs in their games yet (to my knowledge), there is no getting caught. Nintendo has no way yet to single out a specific DS using homebrew. Simple.

correct. the only way to get caught is to really go out and tell/show someone thats in a position to bust you that your doing such, even then no one really cares that much about the end users (see mp3 piracy) "they" go after the providers of such services.

[michaelarth]

ok Thank you everyone!!!

LAST QUESTION: Since i only want to use hombrew apps and not downlad ROMS its perfectly legal? like i want to use beup and other ones? but downlading the music and movies is illegal?

Ok thx everyoine!! i will order the stuff.

[memyselfandi]

umm... it's not really illegal but it is illegal because you're like messing with something that nintendo doesnt like, but if you ever get caught for anything, i'll pay for your lawyer, but the chances of that happening are so little it will never happen, lol

[tennisgy]

wow........why do you guys even answer anymore, he obviously hasnt done any reading himself like you suggested

[Vanit]

Seriously, and I mean seriously, download as many roms, music, and homebrew as you like because you won't get caught. I wouldn't say that he hasn't read anything, I'd simply say he's still at a stage of digital immaturity and does not yet understand the ways of the internet or how you actually 'get caught' doing stuff.

[michaelarth]

Ok Thank you everbody who replied!!

Ill buy the equipment but i wont download roms and i wont change the firmware (superkey) so ill be safe from the law.

Thank YOu!

[teknicz]

Wow, this thread really was kinda stupid...

Seriously, and I mean seriously, download as many roms, music, and homebrew as you like because you won't get caught. I wouldn't say that he hasn't read anything, I'd simply say he's still at a stage of digital immaturity and does not yet understand the ways of the internet or how you actually 'get caught' doing stuff.

As far as Michaelarth's situation goes, I'd agreed with this. If we're asking about whether or not it's actually legal or not, then there are different answers.

None of which would apply to someone like Michaelarth, I can almost guarantee that the FBI wouldn't give a crap about one user. Even a passing policeman wouldn't care, let's be honest. Short of turning yourself in, I'm not sure how one person would get caught doing this stuff.

[sonicwind]

exactly, admins i think you can close this thread now.........

[popinadam]

i think he's lying, he's going to put all his songs and movies on it and download commercial roms and be illegal after all this  :wink: (thought i'd keep this pointless thread one more reply longer)